Messages : 3438 Date d'inscription : 22/11/2010 Age : 37 Localisation : 31
Sujet: Re: Dopage Jeu 10 Fév - 16:25
skunk51 a écrit:
Hdn a écrit:
Joli discours, mais je suis pas totalement d'accord sur la forme ^^ C'est pas que l'évolution devient plus lente, c'est qu'au fil des années elle devient EXTREMEMENT lente. Rares sont ceux avec + de 10 ans de training qui arrivent à gagner ne seraient que quelques kilos sur les exos les plus lourds. En général après 4-5 ans de muscu on est proche du top niveau perf si on s'y met vraiment sérieusement ... Après c'est du peaufinage, au fil du temps mais faut de la patience et jouer avec son pdc ...
Hum, des exemples de personnes avec pas mal de training ( + de 10 ans je pense ) et qui augmentent encore leurs perfs ca se trouve même sur le forum ... La en gros tu penses qu'entre 5 & 10 ans de training t'es au taquet, et qu'après faut se doper pour monter ses perfs parce que sinon ca monte pas ?
Bah c'est un fait je parle pas de volume mais en force les mecs le disent ils sont au top très vite (quelques années seulement), heureusement qu'après ça se calme sinon y'aurait des 400 kilos au DC naturel si les gens avaient une progression tout le temps linéaire ... J'ai pas dit que tu progressais plus mais que c'était extrêmement lent, genre pousser un an pour gagner 3 kilos sur un 10 rm par exemple.
Strong
Messages : 21 Date d'inscription : 29/01/2011 Localisation : Tours
Sujet: Re: Dopage Jeu 10 Fév - 17:52
Citation :
Pour ce qui est de la testo à 50 ans je crois que ta pas compris Strong.
Pas grave :
Citation :
Joli discours
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Sujet: Témoignage sur le dopage Dim 27 Nov - 9:53
Voici un témoignage intéressant de Flex sur le dopage je trouve!
Dernière édition par Christo10 le Mer 30 Nov - 21:46, édité 1 fois
Jimmy95
Messages : 538 Date d'inscription : 21/11/2010 Age : 34 Localisation : 95
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 13:51
Ca fait plaisir de voir des anciens gros parler !
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Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 14:11
The State of Competitive Bodybuilding The Most Shocking Bodybuilding Interview Ever (IRONMAN, February '97) by Steve Holman Comments in blue are mine.
Warning:This is an extremely controversial interview. To be honest, we almost decided not to print it; however, because IRONMAN has always been an open forum, going to great lengths to tell the whole truth, we felt it was our responsibility to the sport and to you, the reader, to allow this athlete to speak his mind. It took a lot of courage for this man to stand up and tell it like it is, and we are keeping him anonymous to protect his status as a professional bodybuilder. We're inserting [blanks] in place of names to help protect his identity-no process of elimination to narrow down the field-and also in place of drug names, so drug-using bodybuilders don't get any inadvertent "help" with their drug programs. Keep in mind that we paid this man nothing because we feel money can only corrupt the information. When people are paid a high sum, they feel as if they have to give the interviewer his or her money's worth, and that can result in exaggeration. As you read this, remember that this athlete came to us because, like us, he loves bodybuilding and wants to see it prosper, not die a painful drug-induced death. Fasten your seatbelts. This dose of reality is going to open your eyes like nothing ever printed in this or any other bodybuilding magazine.
IM: You want to get some things off your chest. You have the bodybuilding world's ear. What is it you want to talk about? BB: Well, you know, most of the things nobody wants to talk about. I want to let everybody know how it really is.
IM: How it is with the drugs?
BB: Damn right!
IM: You're having to take too many, correct? BB: Way too many, man.
IM: What kind of drug bill are we talking about? BB: Well, growth hormone alone costs you $30,000 a year. That is absolutely true, HGH costs a lot of money.
IM: Good lord! BB: And steroids, that's not a really big problem. I use a lot, but you can get it cheap. Mostly you gotta pay people to tell you how to use them. The growth hormone, IGF-IÉ.
IM: And just the thought of putting all that in your body all at one time-that's gotta take its toll on you mentally too. BB: Well, I don't mind a little bit, because I do like big arms, big back, big chest and legs and everything. But when it comes to the point where I'm as big as I want to get-
IM: They tell you that you have to get bigger, right? BB: Yeah, I don't have a choice. I'm gonna be bigger. Next year you're going to see me 24 pounds heavier.You know it's the whole mind-set that you gotta get bigger and sacrifice your shape. I may not like the way my back looks. I mean, I've got improvements to make, obviously. But those things come with time. Maturing into a physique is nice, but they want a monster.
IM: Do you think it can ever stop? I mean, if people keep getting bigger, what's going to happen to the sport?
BB: Well, the sport is already-
IM: Out of control? BB: Yeah. It's an underground sport. It's [a cult that] likes to see the freaky mass monsters....They really don't care. They just say, Whatever it takes to do that, that's what we want to see. But I think a lot of people want to see something that's somewhat attainable.
IM: Do you think the size of the competitors has caused the people to be a little blast about it all? Like: Well, they're just going to have to do what it takes. We don't care; if they die, they die. We want to see 'em bigger, and we want to see 'em better. BB: That's right. They want us to do it, and the judges want to see something bigger. In order for us to make a living and live our dreams, we gotta do whatever it takes, you know? You got guys like [blank, a bodybuilding columnist for another magazine] saying, "Well, nobody's making you." I guess nobody is, but a lot of us [have] this dream of being the best of the built. Best of Roid built.
IM: Absolutely. And it's a performance thing too. It's gratifying to be on stage. What do you think is a solution here? Do you think there is one at this point? BB: Well, it's hard to say. Once you've seen extreme physique development, how are you going to train the eye of the audience to accept something less? You can practically see [some of these guys'] lungs when they do rear lat spreads. You just gotta accept something less. By the way, before I go on, let me tell you right now, there's a lot of things in your hands.
IM: I understand. Your identity is completely confidential, I promise you that. We'll just say you're a top pro. That's all. BB: Right. Okay. Ask anything.
IM: Do you think part of the solution is for the judges to start rewarding a more aesthetic physique? BB: That would be the only way the sport would go into a positive direction. Like Bob Paris.
IM: Right, if Bob Paris came back. I think the problem is you have to have an eye for that type of physique, and the general public and most bodybuilding fans don't have it, so they look at size as the top criterion for victory. BB: I think there's a certain presence, an aura to a really complete physique like Lee Labrada's, rather than someone who's just grotesque.
IM: Getting back to the whole drug thing, do you have to stay on the drugs year-round? BB: Yes. I haven't gone off at all for years.
IM: You have to inject, what, three to four times a week? BB: Every day.
IM: Every day you have to inject something into your body? BB: Yeah. Every day. Let me go over my stack.[He rattles off a list of injectibles and orals that's so long, my jaw hits the desk.]
IM: This is just off-season?
BB: Yeah. And of course I like to use [blank] that blocks estrogen and also increases testosterone levels. Also [blank] four times a day in the off-season to allow me to eat more calories. I also take half a tablet of [blank], which works better synergistically with growth hormone. Six weeks or so out I start taking some [blank] to stop some of the gyno. I did have to have it removed a few years back, but it kind of flares up now and then.And I use [blank] to take some of the water out. And [every so often] I switch from the heavy androgens to the lighter anabolics, like [blank and blank], 300 milligrams every other day. Let's see, [blank], 200 milligrams a day. That helps you harden up your physique, increase your vascularity. I take some [blank], which helps me harden, and I keep my insulin the same and my growth hormone the same.
IM: Whew! Quite a laundry list!
BB: Well, you know there's also many other things, like [blank], which keeps my gonadal system up and [blank] to boost my testosterone to make sure I don't atrophy down there. Also, anti-estrogens and other compound factors to combat the many side effects that I get.
IM: Have you ever noticed any serious health problems that you think are related to this? BB: I piss a lot of blood come contest time.
IM: But in the off-season you feel pretty decent, even though you're taking all that stuff? BB: Well, recently I started getting blood tests every two months.
IM: How about cholesterol count, blood pressure and so forth? All that's pretty normal? BB: No, everything is high. My blood pressure gets really high, and that must be watched, especially when I take stimulants.
IM: It sounds as if you're on pins and needles a lot of the time. BB: If you gotta do it, you got no choice. You want to make a living in this sport, that's what you gotta do.
IM: Race cars keep going faster and faster and there are more crashes, but the drivers keep doing it, right? What do you think your total drug bill is for the year? BB: About $60,000, but it's going to be higher next year. Just this last year I had to add [blank]. Right now it's the number-one bodybuilding "supplement" in the competition ring. All these guys you see getting bigger, it's that. No question. Two years ago...I don't want to take nothing from [blank], really nice guy, nice family man, but physiquewise he was flat as a pancake. Now he's bigger, 20 to 30 pounds heavier. It's all [from this stuff]. [Blank] is heavy on it. Of course, we all are. I'm scared shitless.
IM: Are you guys pretty frank with each other about what you're taking? BB: Only with friends. I mean, I get questions in the gym all the time, and I tell them I take [a popular protein powder]! Yeah, we talk.
IM: You don't feel you need to keep secrets and maintain an edge? BB: There are no secrets. There's one guy out there-I won't mention his name-he's a top pro who helps out the other pros with their [blank] 'cause we don't know how to do it, so we go to him. He helps us out.
IM: I know the old-timers say there's no camaraderie in the sport anymore. BB: Oh, there's some. But the only thing we talk about is-
IM: Drugs and training. BB: We don't talk about training, because most of the guys-
IM: All train alike? BB: Well, yeah. We don't train that hard. [Most of the guys] are half asleep when they [work out]. Real champions like Haney, Yates, Swarzeneger, Oliva and all the others, trained brutally hard!
IM: So it's mostly just the drugs. The top guys really don't have an inkling how to train without them. Do you think most of the top 10 guys are taking pretty much the same thing then?
BB: Yeah, they're all jabbing themselves just as much, but I think [winning] has to do with your estrogen levels and your normal testosterone levels, your receptor abilities and things like that. You know, it's a genetic thing. Some people are more susceptible to steroids. Five milligrams might hit me differently than it might hit you.
IM: I asked you this earlier, and I know you said you think that it's just all part of the game, but aren't you afraid that this will catch up with you later in life? BB: I am. I don't think I'll be able to have children. My doctor told me my sperm count is way too low. And my thyroid [is blown out]. That is most unfortunate.
IM: Do you feel that the sport indirectly promotes the whole drug thing? BB: Yeah, but then you have people saying that nobody makes us. But this is our childhood dream. This is something we want to do, and for the most part we don't have other jobs.
IM: Do you think this drug test they had at the Olympia was a step in the right direction? BB: It was a step in the right direction for the sport and probably a step in the wrong direction for people's careers because I know four people who [should have] tested positive. But we can beat the drug tests. Next year if they want to get diuretics, that's fine. We'll use plasmics. It's fairly simple. There's always exotic steroids."Let's change some molecule on the 17th position, and it can't be detected." [Blank] still can't be detected. I Disagree, drug test is a must. When real drug testing is done ( not the thing they do right now in the Olympia ), things will come upside down. Remember Olympic weightlifting. After the new drug tests, people literally lifted half the weight they used to.
IM: This is the most eye-opening interview I've ever had. I appreciate your opening up to me. BB: You're welcome. It could be because I'm very low on carbohydrates.
IM: And you're pissed off.
BB: Yeah, you know the diuretic scene is very difficult. I'm back there with my I.V. bag and heart monitor. It's just the situation. You take a person and put him into a lab in a freak science experiment. Then you throw him on stage, and you take him off to pump blood back into him. Is that a sport?The training is pretty much beaten to death. In fact, your magazine for the natural athletes is what I recommend. Professional bodybuilding [is about] drugs. Of course, there's abuse in every professional sport-boxing, basketball, baseball, football. I sincerely agree.
IM: How long do you think you can keep at it? I mean at this pace? BB: Well I've been on forÉoh God. I'll tell you right now, if anybody's going to die next, it's going to be [blank]. He's too old to be messing with [junk] like that. His pancreas I don't think is too good.There's a look that you get. I can see it. [Blank, a top pro] is very ill. I understand what he wants to do for the sport, and he can do some great things, but he's dying and every contest he loses is a blow to him. He's killing himself literally because he wants to make this sport better. Eventually he's either going to win the contest or he's going to die.
IM: He's really playing Russian roulette? BB: Yeah, he was using [blank] before any of us. I prefer his look back [a few years]. He wasn't big but aesthetic-a pleasing physique. Something a kid would look at and say, Hey, I would like to look like that. Now he should be concentrating more on certain bodyparts, but instead his body is getting bigger, his stomach, his head, everything.
IM: It's a scary look. Yes, the body's getting bigger, but all the internal organs are getting large, bloated.
BB: They should have a contest for the biggest growth-hormone gut.
IM: Got anything else you want to get off your chest? BB: Yeah, you know I have a hard time thinking because of all the things I'm on now. But they don't talk about how much drug [abuse] there is. And it's not just the steroids. We've got to use speed and stuff like that. We have to use a lot of diuretics, things that aren't too healthy, and they don't feel good. Lots of guys are using cocaine-not just because they like it, but it helps you get cut up, it helps you not eat.With drugs there's use and abuse. But at our level I feel we're getting exploited, you know? They pump us full of drugs...or we pump ourselves full of drugs to make ourselves look like freaks, and we get on stage and that's our job. But we don't get paid hardly anything. The guy who uses our pictures, the supplement companies, make all the money, and they don't give us nothing. If it wasn't for our picture, they wouldn't have nothing to promote.
IM: Yeah, and you gotta keep risking your life to try to make a few bucks winning a show. BB: I'll tell you what: [Some] of the guys, like [blank], are gay prostitutes.
IM: Think so? BB: I know so. That's how they can afford all those drugs. That's definite. Of course [certain people in] the gay community are going to walk up and say, Hey, we'll give you so much to have sex. That's just like a straight guy walking up to Cindy Crawford and saying it. But for us it's a way to make a good $10,000 a month. It helps with our drug bill and sometimes they just give us drugs for the act.
IM: When you think about it, you guys can't make much money. BB: There's not much money in the contracts. Especially with the drugs, the living, the food. You have to sacrifice your-
IM: Integrity? BB: Yeah, your integrity, your pride. It's all a sacrifice. The drugs, the prostitution. These guys don't want to do that. They have to look in the mirror. They know they're sacrificing what makes them a man.And all this crap you see about carb loading and sodium. Bunch of shit.
IM: So you don't think they actually do sodium loading? It's all just drugs? BB: Precontest every once in a while you catch a guy in McDonald's or eating pizza. You can do that kind of thing-of course, in moderation.
IM: But you're a pretty heavy supplement user? BB: I don't use supplements at all! No vitamins, nothing.
IM: You don't think that vitamins and minerals would help protect you somewhat from all the drugs? BB: Yeah, but-
IM: You've got put your money where it's going to be the most effective, right? On drugs. BB: Right. I'd like to see a $1 million prize [for a bodybuilding contest]. That's something else that would help the sport. If there's a decent amount of money in there, it would be something people would watch. Unfortunately, I think people want to see the freaks at this point. Really big mothers up there. It's like you said, you really can't go backwards. I guess you have to let [it] self-destruct and see what happens.
IM: I don't want to see any of you guys die. BB: We will. I guarantee you. You're going to see lots of guys dying in the next few years.
IM: I hope the drug test is a step in the right direction, and maybe they'll start judging for more aesthetic physiques. If they did backtrack to more of the Bob Paris look, I think it would help. BB: Is that ever going to happen?
IM: How much longer do you think you're going to go on with it? BB: Till I reach my goal. Or it beats me. The second will happen, most likely.
IM: Have you ever experienced any kind of depression or rage? BB: Oh, yeah. Beaten many peopleÉgot out of hand. I feel bad about that.
IM: Having all that coursing through your system has to do something to you mentally. BB: Well, besides that, you feel a lump here, and you feel scared, and you don't know what's going on.
IM: Do you get checked by a doctor regularly? BB: I get the blood tests, and he reads it. It's foreign to me. I just ask how much longer do I have to live, what am I doing wrong?
IM: But he doesn't do any MRIs on you? It's just basically a blood test? BB: No. He checks my thyroid, sperm count. Of course, I'm never going to be able to have children.
IM: Perhaps some of this will reverse itself once you- BB: No, I have irreversible damage.
IM: That's really sad. BB: I think it happened last year. When I upped everything, I shut my thyroid down. And if I go off the [blank], I'm going to get fat. I'm going to stay on the stuff permanently. If I go off, I'm going to rebound. None of these guys go off. It's just nonstop. These guys do what it takes.Don't you see that they're exploiting us? They're selling us. They're pumping us up, putting us on stage, throwing us off, and they're collecting the money. And we're back there rolling around in death.In the process they will make money. Sell ourselves. Sell our souls, and we don't get much. And even if you take the drugs, it's no guarantee you're going to win. You have to have something going on there. But [the people who run this sport] say, Keep it going, keep it going. And watch their wallets getting bigger. They don't care. It is a big business today.
IM: But you did say looking like that helps you with women? BB: That makes it a little worthwhile, but I never had any problem with the bitches. I got plenty before. Now I'm bigger, so I get a lot more. But you also get the bad-that includes harassment from the homos.I want to say for the guys who want to take their physiques to a [higher level], weight training, eating right and exercising will help you achieve your goals. What's big to you may be small compared to a pro, but like I said, Lee Labrada will look huge to a lot of guys. So you can attain your goals, get bigger, get better with the women, look good. You may not win Mr. Olympia, but you can still have something to be proud of [without the drugs].[Competitive bodybuilding, for the most part] is all chemistry. It's chemical warfare. Andreas Munzer had something we never had. All those striations and [blank] drugs, but look what it did to him. He died by the sword. And [blank] pocketed everything Andreas ever did.We have to deal with the rat race and the counterfeit steroids. All these guys saying, Yeah, I fell down and broke my arm. That's not true. That's the dealer breaking their arms because they didn't pay for their shipment of growth hormone.
IM: You say you go to Mexico for a lot of this stuff? BB: Yeah, I go to Mexico. The European tour is where most of us get our drugs.[Switches subjects again] You don't need drug testing. Just a Lee Labrada. It didn't take a ton [of drugs] to do that. Pick that, and there you go. All the other guys will have to trim down to look like that.
IM: Go for the aesthetic physique. That's one of the big steps they have to take. By the way, isn't there a drug that you can inject directly into the muscle to blow it up? BB: Oh, yeah, [blank]. Use that for my peak on my biceps. [Blank] uses it everywhere-80 to 100 shots. Tell you right now it hurts like hell. But it's hard to predict. It may look good five days before the show, then it lumps out and you'll get guys with the real lumpy, weird-looking biceps.This whole sport is about being a bitch. You gotta be a bitch to pay your bills. You gotta be a bitch to win. That's what it's all about. Total exploitation. I'd like the athletes to make a little more money. All these magazines talk about how much Michael Jordan and Mike Tyson make. They don't talk about how much we make, 'cause it's disgraceful. What am I going to do? Sell pictures of myself?
IM: Do a lot of the guys sell drugs on the side? BB: Oh, yeah. I've done that myself. Now it's a lot harder. A drug dealer too.
IM: So what else? Is there's anything you can think of that you're really pissed off about. BB: Well, I'm pissed off that we have to use this amount of drugs. I was happier with my physique last year. [They want us] in the 270-pound range.
IM: Don't you think the magazines are a little at fault too? BB: Yeah, they are. They don't print nothing about the drug regimen. They're selling fake dreams to kids: Take this protein powder, and you're going to look like that. And it ain't true. Drugs play a predominant role, and most of the [champions'] training articles lead to overtraining. You know that. And unless you're on steroids, you're going to end up unhappy and lose your dream.
Absolutely true.
IM: I guess it's a vicious cycle.
BB: The insulin's very dangerous. I'm feeling it right now. I'm getting real tired, headaches, weakness. I breathe hard. Not a good drug to take.
IM: What's the danger with the insulin? It's a hormone, so what's the big problem? BB: You can die right there. I mean, there isn't one of us who hasn't been in shock. You really don't know.
IM: Have you ever had to go to the hospital because of it? BB: I've been in the hospital a few times, yeah. They had to use half a bag of glucose intravenously to keep me going. I didn't have any glucose in my liver, because I did too much insulin. My brain was starved, and I was beginning to fall asleep, go into a coma. It's the most painful feeling you'll ever feel. During that time your mind's going nuts.What am I getting out of all this? A cover picture? That won't pay the bills. Maybe they should start giving back to the athletes instead of taking. If they're gonna make it where we have to be bigger, we should get something out of it. Golfers make more money than we do. I saw how much they make at these rodeos too. They collect $50,000 for riding some damn bull. They don't have to take drugs to do that.
IM: The danger's there for eight seconds, then they're out of there. You guys have danger all year long.
BB: Yeah it's dangerous.
IM: To say the least.
This is the end of the interview. Read on for more comments of mine.
My other comments
Well, have you freaked yet ?. I personally have, not that I didn't know what competitive bodybuilding was all about, but I didn't expect such stupidity.
That the pros are taking a lot of drugs is a known fact.
Their training is drug assisted and for a drug free bodybuilder leeds to severe overtraining. This is known too.
That Federations and steroid drugs are synonymous is also known.
Sudden deaths of bodybuilders due to drug abuse and diuretics are getting a common thing.
HGH is the least a pro bodybuilder, not to say a top amateur too, is taking. It is like protein, so common. Today's bodybuilders can't even pull a vacuum due to this. Their buts are getting monstrous, their abs are so developed that they seem to be pregnant and their waistline is so thick !. That is not aesthetic in my opinion.
If they want to be over with drug abuse it is not so difficult. For start, demand monster muscle mass and a tiny waistline. Get big buts out of bodybuilding. Yep these will do. HGH will be out, for start.
Great gains can come without steroids, but they need hard and smart training plus time, although 270 pounds 4-5% BF without drugs seem to me impossible.
This guy if he does all that he says, is gonna die.
Expect a lot of ex-pro bodybuilders to die in the next years.
Magazines, supplement companies etc., do sell fake dreams to kids. They are responsible for the downfall of competitive bodybuilding. Once upon a time there were champions like Arnold, Sergio, Franco and all the others, not to mention Steve Reaves and John Grimek, that had really nice physiques. Today's bodybuilders are just urghhhhh.
Grimek lived up to 87. How long do you think today's pros will live ?
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Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 14:12
FLEX: physiquement , où en êtes-vous en ce moment ?
Mike Matarazzo:
J'ai subi deux rechutes . A un certain moment , j'ai eu du liquide dans les poumons et je me sens encore complétement a plat . Cela mis a part , j'ai recommencé a conduire, je cours 5 à 6 kilomètres par jour sur un tapis de jogging, je fais du sac de boxe et je viens tout juste de reprendre la musculation avec des chrges très légères et des séries ultra longues.
Mon chirurgien m'a prévenu qu'il me faudrait au moins un an avant de recouvrer mes capacités à 100%. Pour l'instant, je suis très limité et je n'ai pas besoin d'un médecin pour m'en rendre compte. Je sens des brûlures intenses et de violentes douleurs au niveau de la poitrine et des épaules, et j'entends encore des craquements dans ma cage thoracique: je dois donc faire attention . Au quotidien, cela m'agace, parce que je voudrais en faire plus, mais je suis aussi conscient qu'il y a un problème: c'est donc une situation difficile à gérer psychologiquement .
La Peur?
C'est ça le plus difficile. Avant je ne songeais jamais a la mort ni même aux blessures. J'avais toujours pensé que je vieillirais bien, comme tous les autres menbres de ma famille ; je croyais aussi que mon mode de vie de bodybuilder me permettrait de rester en forme et actif bien plus longtemps que la moyenne.
Avec toutes ces épreuves , on commence a douter de soi et il se trouve que je suis pessimiste de nature. J'ai tendance a me focaliser sur ce qui va mal . A la mis mars , je me suis rendu chez mon chirurgien et je lui ai demandé ?"Docteur, est ce qu'il va falloir que je continue a voir un médecin jusqu'a ma mort, ou est ce que je peux me permettre de continuer de vivre comme avant?"
Il m'a regardé et m'a répondu sans détour " Mike, ce n'était pas uns simple opération de l'appendicite. Je sais qu'en ce moment , vous vous sentez bien , et pourtant , vous devrez bel et bien continuer a consulter un médecin pour le restant de vos jours .
Vous serez sous médicaments toute votre vie. Tous les six moi et jusqu'a votre mort, vous devrez subir un test d'effort et faire faire un électrocardiogramme une fois par an. "ce sont des mots qui jusque là m'étaient totalement étrangers
Ces mots seuls m'on complétement déprimé. J'ai maintenant l'impression d'être en laisse . Je dois demander régulièrement a quelqu'un d'autre de vérifier si ce que je considérais avant comme étant en bon état n'a pas dorénavant besoin de réparation ...
Cela m'a probablement coûté 20 ans d'espérance de vie . Aucune somme d'argent au monde ne mérite un tel sacrifice
FLEX; Que conseilleriez vous dans ce domaine à ceux qui ont encore une seconde chance ?
Mike;
De laisser tomber. Une poignée de gens seulement sur cette terre arrivent à avoir des revenus à peine suffisants grâce au bodybuilding. Il se trouve que j'ai été un de ceux là pendant quinze ans , mais cela m'a probablement coûté 20 ans d'espérance de vie . Aucune somme d'argent au monde ne mérite un tel sacrifice. Je préférerais revenir en arrière , travailler dans un bureau et vivre jusqu'à un âge avancé comme mon grand père.
On ne peut pas jouer avec ces substances et en sortir indemme : c'est absolument inconvenable. De plus j'étais plujtôt modéré dans mon approche; J'ai eu l'occasion d'expérimenter d'avantage de produits chimique sur moi , mais je ne l'ai pas fait: cela ne m'a pas empéché de bousiller mon corps ! Je n'ai jamais essayer l'insuline , mais aujourdui mes camarades s'injectent ce produit comme si c'était de l'eau. Certains prennent une dose a chaque repas . C'est du délire ça peut vous détruire, vous ou quelqu'un d'autre: c'est un coup de poker! J'ai parié et j'ai tout perdu. Physiquement je suis complétement limité. Financièrement , je suis presque ruiné. Sur le plan émotionnel , cela a fait de moi-dont la seule peur était de perdre mes parents - quelqu'un qui redoute la moindre petite douleur, la plus infime souffrance.
J'ai peur de ne pas revoir le soleil se lever et de ne plus vivre une nouvelle journée de rire avec ma fiancée, Lacy Porter , ou de ne pas connaître le bonheur de l'épouser au mois d'août - tous ces petits moments que la plupart des gens considèrent comme allant de soi. Cela me détruit.
Cet accident a boulversé toute ma vie ; c'est pourquoi je souhaite déclarer a tous ceux qui cherchent sans cesse à obtenir des bras de 53 cm ou des mollets de 50 cm et qui sont si fier de leur jusqu'au boutisme : "Voyez les chôses autrement" Prenez le plus grand soin de votre santé, car votre corps ne dois pas seulement durer jusqu'au concours suivant ou jusqu'a la fin de votre contrat de bodybuilding , mais beaucoup plus longtemps. Et longtemps pour un être humain , cela ne représente pas grand chose. La vie passe très vite, d'autant plus vite que quand on est pas en bonne santé et qu'on a rien a quoi se raccrocher.
FLEX;Y a t'il actuellement un brin d'optimisme dans votre vie
Mike;
Oui je ne suis pas mort. Cela mis à part je vis au jour le jour. Je ne peux faire aucun projet parce que je dois m'occuper de tout ce qui m'est tombé dessus cette année. Cela m'a laminé et j'en ai encore pour des mois à gérer cet imbroglio.
J'ai 38 ans mais quand la santé commence a vous lâcher , le temps joue contre vous .
FLEX; Est-ce qu'il vous reste un peu de confiance en vous ?
Mike;
Toute ma vie ma confiance en moi est venue de mon physique. J'étais boxeur et cela m'a permis de m'affirmer. Quand je suis devenu bodybuilder, le simple fait de monter sur scène , d'aller à la salle, de me mesurer a moi même et de me dépasser au-delà de ce que je pensais possible a renforcer ma confiance. mais même avec un mental très puissant, quand la physique est défaillant et qu'on se regarde dans le miroir avec l'état d'esprit qui est le mien actuellement , on est anéanti. Il faut du temps , mais ça commence à aller mieux.
FLEX; Le physique représente l'effet , non la cause. C'est avant tout une force sous-jacente qui vous a permis de donner cet aspect à votre corps.
Mike;
C'est exactement ce que je pense: D'où me vient cet élan qui m'a poussé à agir ainsi ou a me transformer physiquement?
Cela provient forcément de l'intérieur et cette force ne m'a pas quitté . Bien souvent quand j'était à l'hôpital, j'entendais cette petite voix dans ma tête qui me répétait "Reprends-toi. Sors de là"
FLEX; Vos fans vous apportent un énorme soutient.
Mike;
Je tiens a déclarer ceci du fond du coeur: Je ne remercierai jamais assez mes admirateurs pour leurs cartes, lettres et message de prompt rétablissement, et tout particulièrement ceus que se sont éfforcé de m'aider financièrement. Cela a été incroyable. C'est vraiment touchant ces personnes qui ont peu d'argent er qui réunissent tout ce qu'ils peuvent afin de me l'envoyer.
J'ai reçu des lettres de soldats qui touchent une solde peu élevée et qui m'on envoyé 10 o 12 s. C'est vraiment fabuleux et c'est super quand ils m'avouent qu'ils suivent ma carrière dans FLEX depuis 1991. Ils m'écrivent "Pour nous , vous n'êtes pas juste un bon bodybuilder". Quel bonheur de voir tous ces gens qui se souviennent de moi. Cela m'a souvent fait venir les larmes aux yeux.
Je dois avouer que je ressens véritablement de l'amour et de l'affection pour toutes ces personne qui m'ont gardé dans leurs pensées et leurs prières, et j'espére qu'ils vont continuer. Cela me remonte formidablement le moral. Je souhaite tout simplement leur dire à tous un très grand merci.
kinghandle
Messages : 6000 Date d'inscription : 20/11/2010 Age : 41 Localisation : Avignon
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 17:34
Christo10 a écrit:
The State of Competitive Bodybuilding The Most Shocking Bodybuilding Interview Ever (IRONMAN, February '97) by Steve Holman Comments in blue are mine.
Warning:This is an extremely controversial interview. To be honest, we almost decided not to print it; however, because IRONMAN has always been an open forum, going to great lengths to tell the whole truth, we felt it was our responsibility to the sport and to you, the reader, to allow this athlete to speak his mind. It took a lot of courage for this man to stand up and tell it like it is, and we are keeping him anonymous to protect his status as a professional bodybuilder. We're inserting [blanks] in place of names to help protect his identity-no process of elimination to narrow down the field-and also in place of drug names, so drug-using bodybuilders don't get any inadvertent "help" with their drug programs. Keep in mind that we paid this man nothing because we feel money can only corrupt the information. When people are paid a high sum, they feel as if they have to give the interviewer his or her money's worth, and that can result in exaggeration. As you read this, remember that this athlete came to us because, like us, he loves bodybuilding and wants to see it prosper, not die a painful drug-induced death. Fasten your seatbelts. This dose of reality is going to open your eyes like nothing ever printed in this or any other bodybuilding magazine.
IM: You want to get some things off your chest. You have the bodybuilding world's ear. What is it you want to talk about? BB: Well, you know, most of the things nobody wants to talk about. I want to let everybody know how it really is.
IM: How it is with the drugs?
BB: Damn right!
IM: You're having to take too many, correct? BB: Way too many, man.
IM: What kind of drug bill are we talking about? BB: Well, growth hormone alone costs you $30,000 a year. That is absolutely true, HGH costs a lot of money.
IM: Good lord! BB: And steroids, that's not a really big problem. I use a lot, but you can get it cheap. Mostly you gotta pay people to tell you how to use them. The growth hormone, IGF-IÉ.
IM: And just the thought of putting all that in your body all at one time-that's gotta take its toll on you mentally too. BB: Well, I don't mind a little bit, because I do like big arms, big back, big chest and legs and everything. But when it comes to the point where I'm as big as I want to get-
IM: They tell you that you have to get bigger, right? BB: Yeah, I don't have a choice. I'm gonna be bigger. Next year you're going to see me 24 pounds heavier.You know it's the whole mind-set that you gotta get bigger and sacrifice your shape. I may not like the way my back looks. I mean, I've got improvements to make, obviously. But those things come with time. Maturing into a physique is nice, but they want a monster.
IM: Do you think it can ever stop? I mean, if people keep getting bigger, what's going to happen to the sport?
BB: Well, the sport is already-
IM: Out of control? BB: Yeah. It's an underground sport. It's [a cult that] likes to see the freaky mass monsters....They really don't care. They just say, Whatever it takes to do that, that's what we want to see. But I think a lot of people want to see something that's somewhat attainable.
IM: Do you think the size of the competitors has caused the people to be a little blast about it all? Like: Well, they're just going to have to do what it takes. We don't care; if they die, they die. We want to see 'em bigger, and we want to see 'em better. BB: That's right. They want us to do it, and the judges want to see something bigger. In order for us to make a living and live our dreams, we gotta do whatever it takes, you know? You got guys like [blank, a bodybuilding columnist for another magazine] saying, "Well, nobody's making you." I guess nobody is, but a lot of us [have] this dream of being the best of the built. Best of Roid built.
IM: Absolutely. And it's a performance thing too. It's gratifying to be on stage. What do you think is a solution here? Do you think there is one at this point? BB: Well, it's hard to say. Once you've seen extreme physique development, how are you going to train the eye of the audience to accept something less? You can practically see [some of these guys'] lungs when they do rear lat spreads. You just gotta accept something less. By the way, before I go on, let me tell you right now, there's a lot of things in your hands.
IM: I understand. Your identity is completely confidential, I promise you that. We'll just say you're a top pro. That's all. BB: Right. Okay. Ask anything.
IM: Do you think part of the solution is for the judges to start rewarding a more aesthetic physique? BB: That would be the only way the sport would go into a positive direction. Like Bob Paris.
IM: Right, if Bob Paris came back. I think the problem is you have to have an eye for that type of physique, and the general public and most bodybuilding fans don't have it, so they look at size as the top criterion for victory. BB: I think there's a certain presence, an aura to a really complete physique like Lee Labrada's, rather than someone who's just grotesque.
IM: Getting back to the whole drug thing, do you have to stay on the drugs year-round? BB: Yes. I haven't gone off at all for years.
IM: You have to inject, what, three to four times a week? BB: Every day.
IM: Every day you have to inject something into your body? BB: Yeah. Every day. Let me go over my stack.[He rattles off a list of injectibles and orals that's so long, my jaw hits the desk.]
IM: This is just off-season?
BB: Yeah. And of course I like to use [blank] that blocks estrogen and also increases testosterone levels. Also [blank] four times a day in the off-season to allow me to eat more calories. I also take half a tablet of [blank], which works better synergistically with growth hormone. Six weeks or so out I start taking some [blank] to stop some of the gyno. I did have to have it removed a few years back, but it kind of flares up now and then.And I use [blank] to take some of the water out. And [every so often] I switch from the heavy androgens to the lighter anabolics, like [blank and blank], 300 milligrams every other day. Let's see, [blank], 200 milligrams a day. That helps you harden up your physique, increase your vascularity. I take some [blank], which helps me harden, and I keep my insulin the same and my growth hormone the same.
IM: Whew! Quite a laundry list!
BB: Well, you know there's also many other things, like [blank], which keeps my gonadal system up and [blank] to boost my testosterone to make sure I don't atrophy down there. Also, anti-estrogens and other compound factors to combat the many side effects that I get.
IM: Have you ever noticed any serious health problems that you think are related to this? BB: I piss a lot of blood come contest time.
IM: But in the off-season you feel pretty decent, even though you're taking all that stuff? BB: Well, recently I started getting blood tests every two months.
IM: How about cholesterol count, blood pressure and so forth? All that's pretty normal? BB: No, everything is high. My blood pressure gets really high, and that must be watched, especially when I take stimulants.
IM: It sounds as if you're on pins and needles a lot of the time. BB: If you gotta do it, you got no choice. You want to make a living in this sport, that's what you gotta do.
IM: Race cars keep going faster and faster and there are more crashes, but the drivers keep doing it, right? What do you think your total drug bill is for the year? BB: About $60,000, but it's going to be higher next year. Just this last year I had to add [blank]. Right now it's the number-one bodybuilding "supplement" in the competition ring. All these guys you see getting bigger, it's that. No question. Two years ago...I don't want to take nothing from [blank], really nice guy, nice family man, but physiquewise he was flat as a pancake. Now he's bigger, 20 to 30 pounds heavier. It's all [from this stuff]. [Blank] is heavy on it. Of course, we all are. I'm scared shitless.
IM: Are you guys pretty frank with each other about what you're taking? BB: Only with friends. I mean, I get questions in the gym all the time, and I tell them I take [a popular protein powder]! Yeah, we talk.
IM: You don't feel you need to keep secrets and maintain an edge? BB: There are no secrets. There's one guy out there-I won't mention his name-he's a top pro who helps out the other pros with their [blank] 'cause we don't know how to do it, so we go to him. He helps us out.
IM: I know the old-timers say there's no camaraderie in the sport anymore. BB: Oh, there's some. But the only thing we talk about is-
IM: Drugs and training. BB: We don't talk about training, because most of the guys-
IM: All train alike? BB: Well, yeah. We don't train that hard. [Most of the guys] are half asleep when they [work out]. Real champions like Haney, Yates, Swarzeneger, Oliva and all the others, trained brutally hard!
IM: So it's mostly just the drugs. The top guys really don't have an inkling how to train without them. Do you think most of the top 10 guys are taking pretty much the same thing then?
BB: Yeah, they're all jabbing themselves just as much, but I think [winning] has to do with your estrogen levels and your normal testosterone levels, your receptor abilities and things like that. You know, it's a genetic thing. Some people are more susceptible to steroids. Five milligrams might hit me differently than it might hit you.
IM: I asked you this earlier, and I know you said you think that it's just all part of the game, but aren't you afraid that this will catch up with you later in life? BB: I am. I don't think I'll be able to have children. My doctor told me my sperm count is way too low. And my thyroid [is blown out]. That is most unfortunate.
IM: Do you feel that the sport indirectly promotes the whole drug thing? BB: Yeah, but then you have people saying that nobody makes us. But this is our childhood dream. This is something we want to do, and for the most part we don't have other jobs.
IM: Do you think this drug test they had at the Olympia was a step in the right direction? BB: It was a step in the right direction for the sport and probably a step in the wrong direction for people's careers because I know four people who [should have] tested positive. But we can beat the drug tests. Next year if they want to get diuretics, that's fine. We'll use plasmics. It's fairly simple. There's always exotic steroids."Let's change some molecule on the 17th position, and it can't be detected." [Blank] still can't be detected. I Disagree, drug test is a must. When real drug testing is done ( not the thing they do right now in the Olympia ), things will come upside down. Remember Olympic weightlifting. After the new drug tests, people literally lifted half the weight they used to.
IM: This is the most eye-opening interview I've ever had. I appreciate your opening up to me. BB: You're welcome. It could be because I'm very low on carbohydrates.
IM: And you're pissed off.
BB: Yeah, you know the diuretic scene is very difficult. I'm back there with my I.V. bag and heart monitor. It's just the situation. You take a person and put him into a lab in a freak science experiment. Then you throw him on stage, and you take him off to pump blood back into him. Is that a sport?The training is pretty much beaten to death. In fact, your magazine for the natural athletes is what I recommend. Professional bodybuilding [is about] drugs. Of course, there's abuse in every professional sport-boxing, basketball, baseball, football. I sincerely agree.
IM: How long do you think you can keep at it? I mean at this pace? BB: Well I've been on forÉoh God. I'll tell you right now, if anybody's going to die next, it's going to be [blank]. He's too old to be messing with [junk] like that. His pancreas I don't think is too good.There's a look that you get. I can see it. [Blank, a top pro] is very ill. I understand what he wants to do for the sport, and he can do some great things, but he's dying and every contest he loses is a blow to him. He's killing himself literally because he wants to make this sport better. Eventually he's either going to win the contest or he's going to die.
IM: He's really playing Russian roulette? BB: Yeah, he was using [blank] before any of us. I prefer his look back [a few years]. He wasn't big but aesthetic-a pleasing physique. Something a kid would look at and say, Hey, I would like to look like that. Now he should be concentrating more on certain bodyparts, but instead his body is getting bigger, his stomach, his head, everything.
IM: It's a scary look. Yes, the body's getting bigger, but all the internal organs are getting large, bloated.
BB: They should have a contest for the biggest growth-hormone gut.
IM: Got anything else you want to get off your chest? BB: Yeah, you know I have a hard time thinking because of all the things I'm on now. But they don't talk about how much drug [abuse] there is. And it's not just the steroids. We've got to use speed and stuff like that. We have to use a lot of diuretics, things that aren't too healthy, and they don't feel good. Lots of guys are using cocaine-not just because they like it, but it helps you get cut up, it helps you not eat.With drugs there's use and abuse. But at our level I feel we're getting exploited, you know? They pump us full of drugs...or we pump ourselves full of drugs to make ourselves look like freaks, and we get on stage and that's our job. But we don't get paid hardly anything. The guy who uses our pictures, the supplement companies, make all the money, and they don't give us nothing. If it wasn't for our picture, they wouldn't have nothing to promote.
IM: Yeah, and you gotta keep risking your life to try to make a few bucks winning a show. BB: I'll tell you what: [Some] of the guys, like [blank], are gay prostitutes.
IM: Think so? BB: I know so. That's how they can afford all those drugs. That's definite. Of course [certain people in] the gay community are going to walk up and say, Hey, we'll give you so much to have sex. That's just like a straight guy walking up to Cindy Crawford and saying it. But for us it's a way to make a good $10,000 a month. It helps with our drug bill and sometimes they just give us drugs for the act.
IM: When you think about it, you guys can't make much money. BB: There's not much money in the contracts. Especially with the drugs, the living, the food. You have to sacrifice your-
IM: Integrity? BB: Yeah, your integrity, your pride. It's all a sacrifice. The drugs, the prostitution. These guys don't want to do that. They have to look in the mirror. They know they're sacrificing what makes them a man.And all this crap you see about carb loading and sodium. Bunch of shit.
IM: So you don't think they actually do sodium loading? It's all just drugs? BB: Precontest every once in a while you catch a guy in McDonald's or eating pizza. You can do that kind of thing-of course, in moderation.
IM: But you're a pretty heavy supplement user? BB: I don't use supplements at all! No vitamins, nothing.
IM: You don't think that vitamins and minerals would help protect you somewhat from all the drugs? BB: Yeah, but-
IM: You've got put your money where it's going to be the most effective, right? On drugs. BB: Right. I'd like to see a $1 million prize [for a bodybuilding contest]. That's something else that would help the sport. If there's a decent amount of money in there, it would be something people would watch. Unfortunately, I think people want to see the freaks at this point. Really big mothers up there. It's like you said, you really can't go backwards. I guess you have to let [it] self-destruct and see what happens.
IM: I don't want to see any of you guys die. BB: We will. I guarantee you. You're going to see lots of guys dying in the next few years.
IM: I hope the drug test is a step in the right direction, and maybe they'll start judging for more aesthetic physiques. If they did backtrack to more of the Bob Paris look, I think it would help. BB: Is that ever going to happen?
IM: How much longer do you think you're going to go on with it? BB: Till I reach my goal. Or it beats me. The second will happen, most likely.
IM: Have you ever experienced any kind of depression or rage? BB: Oh, yeah. Beaten many peopleÉgot out of hand. I feel bad about that.
IM: Having all that coursing through your system has to do something to you mentally. BB: Well, besides that, you feel a lump here, and you feel scared, and you don't know what's going on.
IM: Do you get checked by a doctor regularly? BB: I get the blood tests, and he reads it. It's foreign to me. I just ask how much longer do I have to live, what am I doing wrong?
IM: But he doesn't do any MRIs on you? It's just basically a blood test? BB: No. He checks my thyroid, sperm count. Of course, I'm never going to be able to have children.
IM: Perhaps some of this will reverse itself once you- BB: No, I have irreversible damage.
IM: That's really sad. BB: I think it happened last year. When I upped everything, I shut my thyroid down. And if I go off the [blank], I'm going to get fat. I'm going to stay on the stuff permanently. If I go off, I'm going to rebound. None of these guys go off. It's just nonstop. These guys do what it takes.Don't you see that they're exploiting us? They're selling us. They're pumping us up, putting us on stage, throwing us off, and they're collecting the money. And we're back there rolling around in death.In the process they will make money. Sell ourselves. Sell our souls, and we don't get much. And even if you take the drugs, it's no guarantee you're going to win. You have to have something going on there. But [the people who run this sport] say, Keep it going, keep it going. And watch their wallets getting bigger. They don't care. It is a big business today.
IM: But you did say looking like that helps you with women? BB: That makes it a little worthwhile, but I never had any problem with the bitches. I got plenty before. Now I'm bigger, so I get a lot more. But you also get the bad-that includes harassment from the homos.I want to say for the guys who want to take their physiques to a [higher level], weight training, eating right and exercising will help you achieve your goals. What's big to you may be small compared to a pro, but like I said, Lee Labrada will look huge to a lot of guys. So you can attain your goals, get bigger, get better with the women, look good. You may not win Mr. Olympia, but you can still have something to be proud of [without the drugs].[Competitive bodybuilding, for the most part] is all chemistry. It's chemical warfare. Andreas Munzer had something we never had. All those striations and [blank] drugs, but look what it did to him. He died by the sword. And [blank] pocketed everything Andreas ever did.We have to deal with the rat race and the counterfeit steroids. All these guys saying, Yeah, I fell down and broke my arm. That's not true. That's the dealer breaking their arms because they didn't pay for their shipment of growth hormone.
IM: You say you go to Mexico for a lot of this stuff? BB: Yeah, I go to Mexico. The European tour is where most of us get our drugs.[Switches subjects again] You don't need drug testing. Just a Lee Labrada. It didn't take a ton [of drugs] to do that. Pick that, and there you go. All the other guys will have to trim down to look like that.
IM: Go for the aesthetic physique. That's one of the big steps they have to take. By the way, isn't there a drug that you can inject directly into the muscle to blow it up? BB: Oh, yeah, [blank]. Use that for my peak on my biceps. [Blank] uses it everywhere-80 to 100 shots. Tell you right now it hurts like hell. But it's hard to predict. It may look good five days before the show, then it lumps out and you'll get guys with the real lumpy, weird-looking biceps.This whole sport is about being a bitch. You gotta be a bitch to pay your bills. You gotta be a bitch to win. That's what it's all about. Total exploitation. I'd like the athletes to make a little more money. All these magazines talk about how much Michael Jordan and Mike Tyson make. They don't talk about how much we make, 'cause it's disgraceful. What am I going to do? Sell pictures of myself?
IM: Do a lot of the guys sell drugs on the side? BB: Oh, yeah. I've done that myself. Now it's a lot harder. A drug dealer too.
IM: So what else? Is there's anything you can think of that you're really pissed off about. BB: Well, I'm pissed off that we have to use this amount of drugs. I was happier with my physique last year. [They want us] in the 270-pound range.
IM: Don't you think the magazines are a little at fault too? BB: Yeah, they are. They don't print nothing about the drug regimen. They're selling fake dreams to kids: Take this protein powder, and you're going to look like that. And it ain't true. Drugs play a predominant role, and most of the [champions'] training articles lead to overtraining. You know that. And unless you're on steroids, you're going to end up unhappy and lose your dream.
Absolutely true.
IM: I guess it's a vicious cycle.
BB: The insulin's very dangerous. I'm feeling it right now. I'm getting real tired, headaches, weakness. I breathe hard. Not a good drug to take.
IM: What's the danger with the insulin? It's a hormone, so what's the big problem? BB: You can die right there. I mean, there isn't one of us who hasn't been in shock. You really don't know.
IM: Have you ever had to go to the hospital because of it? BB: I've been in the hospital a few times, yeah. They had to use half a bag of glucose intravenously to keep me going. I didn't have any glucose in my liver, because I did too much insulin. My brain was starved, and I was beginning to fall asleep, go into a coma. It's the most painful feeling you'll ever feel. During that time your mind's going nuts.What am I getting out of all this? A cover picture? That won't pay the bills. Maybe they should start giving back to the athletes instead of taking. If they're gonna make it where we have to be bigger, we should get something out of it. Golfers make more money than we do. I saw how much they make at these rodeos too. They collect $50,000 for riding some damn bull. They don't have to take drugs to do that.
IM: The danger's there for eight seconds, then they're out of there. You guys have danger all year long.
BB: Yeah it's dangerous.
IM: To say the least.
This is the end of the interview. Read on for more comments of mine.
My other comments
Well, have you freaked yet ?. I personally have, not that I didn't know what competitive bodybuilding was all about, but I didn't expect such stupidity.
That the pros are taking a lot of drugs is a known fact.
Their training is drug assisted and for a drug free bodybuilder leeds to severe overtraining. This is known too.
That Federations and steroid drugs are synonymous is also known.
Sudden deaths of bodybuilders due to drug abuse and diuretics are getting a common thing.
HGH is the least a pro bodybuilder, not to say a top amateur too, is taking. It is like protein, so common. Today's bodybuilders can't even pull a vacuum due to this. Their buts are getting monstrous, their abs are so developed that they seem to be pregnant and their waistline is so thick !. That is not aesthetic in my opinion.
If they want to be over with drug abuse it is not so difficult. For start, demand monster muscle mass and a tiny waistline. Get big buts out of bodybuilding. Yep these will do. HGH will be out, for start.
Great gains can come without steroids, but they need hard and smart training plus time, although 270 pounds 4-5% BF without drugs seem to me impossible.
This guy if he does all that he says, is gonna die.
Expect a lot of ex-pro bodybuilders to die in the next years.
Magazines, supplement companies etc., do sell fake dreams to kids. They are responsible for the downfall of competitive bodybuilding. Once upon a time there were champions like Arnold, Sergio, Franco and all the others, not to mention Steve Reaves and John Grimek, that had really nice physiques. Today's bodybuilders are just urghhhhh.
Grimek lived up to 87. How long do you think today's pros will live ?
tu penses que c'est qui le Pro? et la new drug que tout le monde prends c'est quoi, bloqueur de myostatine?
skunk51 Modérateur
Messages : 7025 Date d'inscription : 03/12/2010 Age : 32 Localisation : 21
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 17:50
La il fait passer les BB pour des pauvres malheureux qui se font exploiter, mais en même temps on leur a pas mis le couteau sous la gorge pour qu'ils acceptent de se charger En plus de ça le mec dis lui même que les BB a pouvoir vivre de leur passion sont très peu nombreux ... j'vois pas pourquoi on voudrait se détruire la santé si c'est pour finir clodo ... Si ils le font, c'est qu'ils le veulent, non ?
Invité Invité
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 18:03
Craig Titus qui parle depuis sa prison.
King si tu captes quelques choses j'ai essayé d'entendre hier mais le son est assez mauvais je vais essayé une seconde écoute avec haut parleurs:!
Pour l'interview en 97 il y avait beaucoup de grande gueule! A mon avis déjà c'est un top pro donc ça peut être Levrone, Wheeler ou El sombaty qui avait une grosse bouche mais j'opte plus pour Dilett l'homme que Screw déteste. Il était 5e en 97 et en 98 il n'était même plus classé à Olympia soit + de 17ème! Pour le produit miracle. Fort possible que ce soit ça mais même today ils n'arrivent pas réellement à jouer avec la myostatine! Quand ils y arriverons à mon avis les Cutler et Ronnie seront des avortons à côté!
kinghandle
Messages : 6000 Date d'inscription : 20/11/2010 Age : 41 Localisation : Avignon
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 18:05
j'avais pas capté que c'etait en 97...my bad, pour la vid j'essaierai d'écouter ca
Invité Invité
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 18:09
Ca marche! Skunk ils dit aussi que c'est un rêve de gosse. Et puis le body c'est un sport très particulier, les standard évolue très vite! Avant les gros pecs gagnaient par exemple, puis ça à été le dos, et là on est dans l'air des jambes! Si tu es plus dans les standards, si tu es trop légers, tu dégages c'est aussi simple que ça. Seulement ces mecs ne savent faire que ça! Heureusement de nos jours je dirais que Cutler à redonné un peu d'espoir aux mecs en montrant qu'on pouvait vivre et bien du body!
screwball
Messages : 1155 Date d'inscription : 20/11/2010
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 27 Nov - 22:27
Je deteste pas Dillet, il a juste un physique immonde
Invité Invité
Sujet: Re: Dopage Lun 28 Nov - 2:01
Euuuuh perso je crois que je préférais encore avant!
Anthony Weiss
Messages : 1092 Date d'inscription : 26/11/2010 Age : 31 Localisation : Villefranche sur saône
Sujet: Dopage Dim 18 Déc - 19:32
EDIT
mimosa56
Messages : 154 Date d'inscription : 03/11/2012 Age : 53 Localisation : Vannes
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 8:05
Je viens de lire les 4 pages, trés intéressant. A titre personnel je fais partie de ceux qui n'ont aucune tolérance pour le dopage, pour moi c'est tricher ! L'honnêteté me pousse à admettre que j'ai triché deux fois. J'ai pris de la créatine une semaine il y a une douzaine d'année lorsque je jouais au rugby à un bon niveau national. Et plus récemment j'ai commandé de l'éphédryne, j'en ai pris quelques gellules et comme pour la créat, j'ai tout mis à la benne. Je suis bien trop gras, et la muscul pour moi est un moyen d'améliorer mon physique ... mais pas à n'importe quel prix ! Je suis porteur d'une maladie génétique compliquée dont j'ai déja parlé sur ce site et je retrouve dans les propos de flex une certaine approche de la vie particulière aux gens malades, approche qu'il a découvert sur le tard aprés avoir mis sa santé en péril de son propre chef. Je n'ai ni rancoeur contre, ni pitié pour ce gars ; il a joué, il a perdu, dommage pour lui. Dans les pages que j'ai lu précédemment, j'ai été surpris par les posts qui "justifiaient" le dopage en cas de stagnation (aprés avoir tout tenté par des pratiquants expérimentés) ou d'autres pour lutter contre le "viellissement" car apres 50 ans on est pourri (j'éxagère un peu vos propos là). Je pense que derrière tout ça il y a un problême d'acceptation de soi,, de son niveau, de son patrimoine.Pour finir avec mon cas perso je jouais au rugby au Niveau F1 avec une saison PROD2ou j'étais moins titulaire. Je n'avais pas le physique, pas le bagage technique pour jouer au-dessus, dopé je ne suis pas sure que ça aurait changé grand-chose, ou peut-être que si ... Mais en tout cas je me suis éclaté là ou j'ai joué, je n'ai pas mis ma santé en danger et nos victoires, même petite par rapport au top 14, grand chelem ou coupe du monde, furent ponctuées de troisiémes mi-temps mémorables, qui elles furent de niveau international . Maintenant je prends beaucoup de plaisir à la sale de muscu, sans pression, avec pour objectif d'améliorer mon physique en fonction de mon age, de mon morphotype et sans objectifs inaccessibles. Pour finir je voulais préciser que j'apprécie positivement l'évolution du site et remercie tamalou (qui est est devenu math, si j'ai bien compris ?) d'avoir pris de mes nouvelles il y a quelque mois aprés m'avoir conseillé sur certains points.
Zac
Messages : 1091 Date d'inscription : 09/11/2012
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 10:38
Oué intéressant comme tu dis. Mais personnellement je fais partie de ceux qui n'ont aucune tolérance pour ceux qui n'ont aucune tolérance pour ceux qui se dopent... Pour moi c'est juste de la jalousie, la jalousie de ne pas avoir ce qu'il faut dans le froque pour se doper, parce que quand tu veux devenir le meilleur ou tout du moins concurrencer avec les meilleurs, avec l'élite, la question c'est est-ce que tu as ce qu'il faut dans le froque pour te doper au risque de ta vie ou de chopper pas mal de merde et pour ca il faut des couilles. Alors du moment que les mecs se dopent et qu'ils l'assument, c'est un choix respectable et c'est une voie comme une autre. On ne peut pas cracher sur un mec qu'il l'assume, surtout si c'est pour vivre ses rêves et non rêver sa vie comme un milliard de mouton jaloux qui crache sur les dopés, juste parce qu'ils n'en ont pas les couilles, parce qu'ils n'ont pas ce qu'il faut dans le froque.
Après il est certain que niveau tolérance, c'est zéro pour les mec qui se dopent et qui de 1 - tire dans des fédés dites de naturel, qui passent outre les controles et de 2 - qui pire, se revendique naturel -> Putain d'hypocrisie a deux balles. Et de l'hypocrisie y en a pas mal sur un certain forum qui se dit revendiquer le naturel de part certains membre que ce soit des body ou un certain power en particulier, quand tu te dis fort et naturel et que t'as des perf qui équivalent l'élite du powerlifting, qui surpassent même des mec surdopé, faut arrêter... Enfin la il n'y a pas de tolérance.
Mais pour un mec qui s'assume et qui a choisi sa voie, il n'y a pas lieu de lui chier dessus gratuitement, au contraire c'est respectable.
Et la créatine n'a rien d'un dopant c'est un supplément comme un autre, je pense qu'il y en a beaucoup ici dont moi qui se supplémente en créatine.
Juste une précision, il n'y a pas une once d'agressivité dans mon poste, je donne juste mon avis, après avoir lu le dernier post
Pierre Administrateur
Messages : 3363 Date d'inscription : 30/08/2011 Age : 29 Localisation : Versailles
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 11:39
Je suis d'accord avec toi Mimosa. Zac je pense que le dopage est une solution de facilité pour ces gens qui veulent être au top. Pour moi ils n'ont justement pas les couilles de s’entraîner plus dur pour atteindre ce niveau de compétition.
Sérieusement zac, faut avoir des couilles pour se doper ? pour moi c'est le contraire, il faut être faible et rien avoir dans la tête.
Maintenant c'est un choix, les dopés ont leur raison, mauvaise ou non, ils se dopent et ca c'est mal.
Ce dopé c'est anti sport, même si tout les meilleurs le font, ca reste un produit dangereux qui amène une mauvaise image au sport, à la communauté. Je suis contre.
Et oui la créa rien à voir. C'est un très bon complément.
THEGHOST
Messages : 3714 Date d'inscription : 20/11/2010 Age : 46 Localisation : AISNE
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 11:45
100% avec zac, surtout pour:
zac a écrit:
Après il est certain que niveau tolérance, c'est zéro pour les mec qui se dopent et qui de 1 - tire dans des fédés dites de naturel, qui passent outre les controles et de 2 - qui pire, se revendique naturel -> Putain d'hypocrisie a deux balles. Et de l'hypocrisie y en a pas mal sur un certain forum qui se dit revendiquer le naturel de part certains membre que ce soit des body ou un certain power en particulier, quand tu te dis fort et naturel et que t'as des perf qui équivalent l'élite du powerlifting, qui surpassent même des mec surdopé, faut arrêter... Enfin la il n'y a pas de tolérance.
Zac
Messages : 1091 Date d'inscription : 09/11/2012
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 11:57
Quand ton rêve c'est d'atteindre le top, bulkas, enfin que ce n'est pas seulement un rêve mais que c'est quelque chose que tu veux concrétiser c'est être extrémement naif et vivre dans une sorte de rêve que de croire que par l'entrainement des plus difficiles et la meilleur des diètes tu pourras ne serait-ce que concurrencer avec l'élite. Parce que l'élite en plus de s'entrainer extrêmement difficilement, de ne jamais rien lâcher, d'avoir une motivation de malade et bah oui ils se dopent, ca fais partie du sport.
Et oui pour se doper il faut des putains de couilles quand, il faut des couilles quand tu n'es pas un débile que tu sais pourquoi tu le fais, que tu l'assumes et que surtout tu connais tout les risques que ca peut et que ca engendrera surement. C'est l'acceptation de pouvoir concurrencer avec les meilleurs, de peut-être pouvoir devenir le boss, contre peut-être crever a 40 - 50 pige ? Chopper un cancer du jour au lendemain... Donc oui il faut des couilles.
Après je parle pas du débile de la salle qui fait aucun progrès et se dope hasardeusement ou du power qui stagne et se dope, c'est différent.
Il ne faut pas dire que la dope c'est mal ou pas, il n'y a pas a avoir de jugement, c'est un choix pour un mec qui l'assume et qui est conscient de ce qu'il fait et de ce qu'il veut, un choix.
La dope amène une mauvaise image au sport bof bof surtout les gens naif a qui ca amène une mauvaise image quand ils apprennent que certains se dope. Mais a haut niveau dans TOUT les sport, il y a de la dope. J'ai discuté avec mon pote enfin le mec avec qui je m'entrainai rima sur superphysique, il me disait que même les joueurs d'échec prennent des dopants pour la concentration ou une connerie comme ca, c'est pour dire.
D-will8
Messages : 28 Date d'inscription : 06/09/2013 Age : 27 Localisation : Lyon
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 12:12
Comme a dit theghost, bah Zac a tout dit.
Pierre Administrateur
Messages : 3363 Date d'inscription : 30/08/2011 Age : 29 Localisation : Versailles
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 12:58
Je comprend les points que tu avances zac, je comprend les personnes qui se dopent et les raison pour lesquelles ils le font sont parfois fondées, mais je ne l'accepte pas. Pour moi c'est tricher. Et ce n'est pas parcque tout le monde triche que c'est bien de le faire et qu'il faut le faire.
Je pense que la vie est assez longue pour te donner une marge de progression naturel immense.
Après c'est juste une question de temps par rapport à ses objectifs. 2 mois-2ans-20 ans +.
Zac
Messages : 1091 Date d'inscription : 09/11/2012
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 13:54
Une marge naturel ne rivalisera jamais avec une marge de dopé Même les mec chargés qui aujourd'hui ont les world record ou explose les world record font du power depuis quoi 6, 10, 15 ans... Dan green doit avoir 30 pige il a commencé vers 15 ans je crois, eric lilliebridge dois avoir 22-24 il a commencé vers 12-13 ans je crois, enfin voila.
C'est pas triché du moment qu'elles ne mentent pas, qu'elles concourrent dans des fédé ou des événements ou il n'y a pas de réglement par rapport a cela. Après si on part de ce raisonnement le sport professionnel et même voir le sport amateur dans certain cas ca se résume a être de la triche.
Après voila je pense pas que ce débat ira bien loin on a chacun un point de vu bien différent pierre ^^
Pierre Administrateur
Messages : 3363 Date d'inscription : 30/08/2011 Age : 29 Localisation : Versailles
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 14:06
Exactement on a un point de vue différent, je cherchais pas à te convaincre ou quoi que se soit, j'ai juste réagit à tes propos et émis ma façon de voir les choses.
C'est fait pour ca le forum, se confronter à des idées différente des nôtres.
Zac
Messages : 1091 Date d'inscription : 09/11/2012
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 14:18
Oué c'est sur enfin quand t'as 2 types buté avec un point de vu ancré ca avance pas toujours bien haha ^^
Pierre Administrateur
Messages : 3363 Date d'inscription : 30/08/2011 Age : 29 Localisation : Versailles
Sujet: Re: Dopage Dim 15 Déc - 14:38
Apres ca c'est une autre historie. Moi si t'as un avis différent du mien, que tu me l'explique bien, pourquoi et comment, les raisons du choix ok, c'est intéressant. Là tu m'a donner certain argument, tu m'a expliqué ton idée, niquel. Mais c'est pas pour ca que je vais changer d'avis hein. Je préfère parler avec un mec qui a des idées totalement opposés aux mienne mais qui a des arguments qu'avec quelqu'un qui a les même que moi mais aucun argument.
Tout le débat sur le dopage ca reflète une façon de penser/ d'agir dans la vie, on ne peut pas avoir tous la même.